Where does the shower steam actually go?

We run the ensuite fan for every shower, and I have wondered where it blows. Last week I took a torch up through the manhole to find out.

It does not go outside. There is no duct at all. The fan is part of the combined heat lamp, light and exhaust unit in the ceiling, and it discharges straight up into the roof space. So does the one in the loft bathroom, an older unit doing the same thing, but I think into a tighter roof space.

Up there it is timber, insulation and still air, and in winter it is colder than any room below. Every shower we have taken in this house has sent its steam to the coldest, least ventilated part of the building, several times a day, for years.

Fixing it properly is not simply a matter of running a pipe out to the eave. The cheap axial fan fitted in most Australian ceilings moves plenty of air with nothing attached to it, and far less once it has to push through a duct — so the fan has to be able to shift air through the pipe as well.

The Australian Government's YourHome guide is blunt about the principle: vent bathroom, laundry and kitchen exhaust directly outdoors. Ours do not.

What I do not know is how much this has cost us. I could see no mould on the underside of the roof while I was up there, which is the good news, and you can judge that from the photos as well as I can.

Is it worth getting both of them ducted outside? For now the ensuite window does more than the fan does.

Coming up

Machine versus open window: which one earns its electricity.

The leak we found under the vanity.

Saving the bed slats.

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53 comments

  1. Our house is a 2012 build and all the bathrooms are like this. Wouldn't surprise me if it is still current practice
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  2. This of course was common practice up until about 15 or so years ago… Probably a bigger problem since it became a thing to basically seal the roof space as distinct from it being able to just vent out through the gaps in tiles etc…
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    1. Craig Butterworth mine is tile with sarking and then empty space with insulation on gyprock. Not air tight but definitely not good airflow.

      No mound in Canberra climate and was still practice in 2012
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    2. Craig Butterworth wasn't common practice 15 years ago depends on your state and the states building code. Most large project builders here 15 years ago never vented only was done for range hoods.

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  3. Not like that.
    Should be vented external to the house.
    That looks perfect for growing mould.
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    1. Bill Davies no, whilst not great for thermal efficiency and no longer legal, houses vented like this at no more likely to have any mould in the roof than ones without fans vented into the roof space. Fun fact, they are actually far less likely to have mould in the bathroom as well due to the fact they aren’t sealed off.
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    2. Bill Davies with a tiled roof there is so much air moving around then the steam is quickly dissipated.
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  4. The regulation stipulating that bathroom fans must vent to the atmosphere is relatively new (5-6 years, feel free to correct me) millions of homes have fans vented directly to ceiling spaces, and unless the space they are vented into is very small with no air flow, in the hundreds of roof spaces I’ve seen, it has never appeared to have created a problem.
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    1. Patrick Sportelli yeah, our house was built about 10 years ago, the downstairs bathrooms/toilet spaces vent outside rather than the small space between floors, and the upstairs bathrooms vent into the (quite well sealed!) ceiling space…
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      1. Craig Butterworth ground floor bathrooms with only floor space above have been ducted externally for a long time, however now all bathrooms etc must be ducted externally. The issue with this is that the ducting efficiency of the fans is terrible, there are some high volume fans but they sound like a plane engine😂
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      2. Patrick Sportelli ones with DC motors tend to do a fair job and are relatively quieter. Ducting does tax a motor more. Perhaps an inline motor wired closer to the exit through wall/roof - would be less noisy too.
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      3. PK Saxena The in-line units are quieter, but not great at air movement.
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    2. Patrick Sportelli my neighbours over the back - new house no vents. Black soot coming out from under the ridge cap is not black soot but mould
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      1. Karl Jensen Thats a serious concern, they need to find the cause of that. Is it a tin or tiled roof?
        I can honestly say I have never seen mould in a ceiling caused by bathroom fans.
        Having said that, they have always been older homes where the roof space has lots of natural ventilation.
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      2. Patrick Sportelli start checking out ridge lines tin roofs, now you know you will see it alot.

        Conditioned space ends at the ceiling. Exhaust warm air full of moisture , it condenses on the cold tin, grows mould as the tin warms air rises picks up the water and the mould carries it out the top, spills over mould grows in the nice warm air full of water in the sun...
        Mould, mould and more mould
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  5. The amount of steam your bathroom produces compared to the roof space is why they don’t cause mould issues, this style do allow airflow to and from the roof space unless you put a air dam or trunking in.
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  6. Tiles? Looks like can't see any light.
    In any case those fixtures can go.
    Very dated now big hole = loosing heaps of heat all the time like a big chimney.
    Stick your head over it in the roof space with fan off see what I mean
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  7. A lot of old houses had tiles. So vented out that way. Iron roof. Well they usually had large ceiling cavities.
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  8. It’s fine with a terracotta tile roof they are meant to have airflow, if your roof is sealed vent to the outside
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    1. Richard Baptiste a roof is never that sealed you havent got air flow. Correct depending on state laws, again every state has its own building code but if an issue arises the NCC always comes to play and yes vented to atmosphere.
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  9. As a domestic sparky with over 20 years experience ducting exhaust fans into the roof space over the atmosphere far overweight’s the issues it causes exhaust fans. The only fans that should be used in conjunction with ducting are inline ducted fans if anything. Back draft shutters get stuck, motors burn out. I’ve seen no indication of excess steam damage in any roof space I have been in unless it has been a built in bulkhead. External walls need moisture gaps due to moisture being sucked through bricks, those gaps all lead into the roof space. It’s a joke…
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    1. Oh and venting Rangehoods to the atmosphere, all that does is lead flies right to your Rangehood filters. Only noticed slight oil residue on insulation after 30-40 year old homes. Real slight..
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    2. Danny Rowe Thanks for the insights!

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  10. As someone said earlier, the requirement for extractor fans to vent outside via ducting rather than into the roof cavity came in around 5 or 6 years ago. We were renovating a property then and having to put in ducting for 2 bathrooms and a windowless laundry was further complicated because the eaves weren’t suitable. We ended up venting out a fair distance away.

    Also, the first combination bathroom fans and lights we bought were hopeless even though they were supposedly designed to be used with venting. All up I think we spent around $1,000 mainly on decent fans.
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  11. The extraction fan is normal, the mess mistaken for insulation not so much.
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  12. What if you have very long hot showers which produce a lot of steam into a tiled roof, surely mould would start to grow somewhere in the roof space? Or would the temperature the roof space gets to during the day kill it off?
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  13. Code now requires (for new builds) for bathroom, kitchen exhausts to be vented externally ( ie through the roof, eaves or external wall. I have recently moved into a house built in the late 90s with none externally vented. First priority is kitchen exhaust from rangehood.
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    1. Robert Trainor Wow. Yes, we’re very glad that our kitchen rangehood is externally vented.

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      1. Tesla Tripping not to put too fine a point on it but where the oil/grease from cooking has condensed in the roof it's not very pleasant (rodents) and a fire trap too. Can't wait until I can get a proper fire rated exhaust up and outside.

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  14. If a tile roof has no foil, it really doesn't need ducting to outside. Metal roof does, especially where it gets cold.
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    1. Jeff Pethybridge yes. A tiled roof without sarking is considered to be ventilated. Edit: And even it is sarked it could easily be ventilated with a vent or vents like the good old Whirly Bird type.

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  15. Install a couple of whirlybirds to the roof to vent the ceiling cavity.
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  16. Your roof is more ventilated than you think.
    Given how poorly insulated your ceiling is, I’d fix that as a priority first.
    Yes, ducting to outdoors is better, and should be considered for sure. A whirly bird or two can also assist.
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  17. Where ever it likes , just creating work for others !
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  18. Normal to vent into roof. I've never seen any issues with mine. I just clean the fan blade every so often.
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  19. Tesla Tripping via Facebook ↗
    Tesla Tripping Ducting is an appalling thing if it is that concertina stuff - actually designed to stop air flow dead (because no one would do it by accident).
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  20. Yes that’s pretty much the same either way most homes though in QLD all new builds have to be ducted outside. Ours are including the range hood.
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  21. I don't know the science behind it, but in the 28 years of working in roofs, in my early years as an electrical apprentice. Even my own house, I have never seen any form of damage from moisture from these exhaust fans.

    They are fine, it's nothing to worry about.

    However, my rangehood is ducted up to the whirly wind.
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    1. Jim Propert the problem is that over that 28 years the building industry has demanded we make out roof cavity membrane more and more air tight. About 10 years ago, while using simple reflective foil it was found that massive levels of condensation formed in the cavity which changed the method to using blanket (this just hid the issue). Now we have vapour permeable which still does not allow steam through.
      Personally I think we are still in the "limbo 1/2 way" solution to building and dealing with nothing humidty & temperature but we are getting there

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  22. I've been working in roof spaces and installing various versions of bathroom fans for 35 years plus as an electrician. Not an issue - the steam dissipates harmlessly into the large roof cavity.
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  23. I’m shocked 😳 (not really unfortunately!) to see how careless previous tradies have been with your ceiling insulation.

    Our ceiling was the same, and when I was younger (and still had joints that actually move) I fixed it all, making it do a much better job.

    Our bathroom exhaust fans (x2) are the same. I’ve never seen any issue, as the roof space is naturally quite well ventilated with gaps around the edge etc.

    We’re in SEQ though with a somewhat different climate. Summer heat is our problem, not winter cold. What helped with that REALLY DRAMATICALLY was in 2012 when we ripped the old dark 1970 tiles off and fitted “Surfmist” colorbond, complete with good blanket insulation under the colorbond.
    That made an absolutely MASSIVE difference to our Summer cooling.
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  24. Does a ‘whirlybird’ on your roof help expel this air to the outside
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  25. I wish I saw this post before buying a new roof cowl and ducting, I've been procrastinating from installing it. I have tiled roof with no sarking. Seems to be okay over the many years.

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  26. building product business owner here and we see this fan situation in most Melbourne homes as it only recently became a requirement to vent externally. I'd be way more concerned with the state of your insulation ....imagine the $$ in heating and cooling leaving the building :(

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  27. not an issue really, not as much as the amount of dust that these fans blow into the house on windy days. If someone could come up with a fix for that it would sell like hot cakes

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  28. I have been in my home for 12 years it was a new build and it shocks me that the exhaust vans vent into the roof. How was this not a standard requirement.
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  29. Tiled roof with no sarking = usually no problem, more than enough "gaps" for natural ventilation.

    Colourbond or tiled with sarking = duct it outside with proper inline fan to have enough grunt to push the air out.

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  30. We added a couple of items to our house, which was built in the early 80s. We have a tile roof with sarking under the tiles.

    We added a solar powered roof ventilator, it has a solar panel on the top side which runs a small fan in sunlight hours.

    All our bathroom fans we have vented to eaves/verandah ceiling or through the roof tiles. We have one old fan in our hallway loo that vents into the roof space - but it only extracts filthy smells (LoL) not steam.

    A product we got recently from Bunnings (but it may have been discontinued on Clearance) is a low profile roof vent - it has a wide flashing and the vent part looks like a tortoise shell. It's vented on the downslope side and includes strong mesh grille to prevent insect entry and possibly bushfire embers. It sits very low to the roof tiles and looks unobtrusive. On bbq rangehoods venting through the verandah roof tiles we used stainless flues and cowls, hoping that any grease would vent to air not so much on the roof.

    In our newer fans, we used the stiff corrugated aluminium ducts. The floppy silver foil type ducts included with budget fans have much worse airflow characteristics.

    It is easy to get fan units with side ducted air outlets. Many fans give stats of airflow on the box and in general a larger duct gives better airflow - so choose 150mm or 125mm duct versions over a 100mm duct version.

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  31. Be aware, those fans are NOT isolated when you turn off the switches. They are always live so that the fan can stay on until the globes are cold.

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  32. Very common practice for a long time

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  33. Mine vents towards 2 whirlybirds, wondering if this is causing issues with my painted ceilings in a couple of rooms or if it's just poor prep when it was repainted (old ceilings, old house)

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  34. Meanwhile the electrical cable is ran over the truss...

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  35. What is even worse is that many older houses vent all the kitchen exhaust fan with greasy fumes etc. straight into the roofspace as well.... ☹

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